刘欣接受RT专访，首次披露引发中美主播约辩关键细节

上次在“2022伊斯兰堡安全对话”论坛上打了个照面，这次刘欣成为了RT主持人奥克萨纳·博伊科（Oksana Boyko）节目的座上宾，一对一30分钟专访，聊得过瘾。当主持人提到三年前刘欣与福克斯商业频道前主播翠西的约辩时，刘欣第一次披露了一个关键细节背后的故事。

Oksana Boyko: I think you are one of the most eloquent English-speaking anchors. I'm not trying to be sycophantic here, but you truly have very good command of the language. You did not only read news off of autocue,  but also, in live debate and analysis. And that's a huge effort. I mean as somebody who also speaks English, as a non-native language. I understand how much work goes into that.

奥克萨纳·博伊科：在我心里你是口才最好的英语主播之一，我不是在这里献殷勤，但你确实很好地掌握了英语。你不是简单照着提词器播新闻，还能用英语现场辩论和分析，这里面需要付出巨大的努力。我的母语也不是英语，我知道这背后需要付出多少努力。

Oksana Boyko: And yet, in interview after interview,  I can see you, not being discounted,  but sort of kept as somewhat not on par with all the people who speak English fluently just by the nature of being born in that country. 

奥克萨纳·博伊科：然而在一次又一次的采访中，我看到你虽然谈不上被轻视，但没有得到和以英语为母语的、出生在英语国家的人一样的公正待遇。

Oksana Boyko: Do you think our colleagues, our Western colleagues understand how much human effort goes into what we do? Not just state funds, but basic human effort into even being able to deliver what we are trying to deliver in that language, and also within that framework of the world. Because you are not only learning the language, you are also learning the culture, the world view, et cetera.

奥克萨纳·博伊科：你觉得我们的同行、西方同行们是否了解，为了事业我们需要付出多少的努力？不仅是国家资金，还有我们个人的奋斗，就为了能用英语在当今世界的框架下传递自己的观点。因为你不仅要学习语言，还要了解不同的文化和世界观等等。

Liu Xin: I think one idiom would be good here. It's their house, so we have to follow their rules. And if you want to speak to an international audience, which is prevalent in English, which is English speaking primarily, you have to learn their language, you have to learn their culture.

刘欣：我觉得有句俗话用在这里挺合适，叫做“入乡随俗”。这里是他们的地盘，我们只能按他们的规矩来。当今世界的主流语言还是英语，如果你想和说英语的国际受众交流，你就得学习他们的语言，了解他们的文化。

Liu Xin: I was an English language major when I was in university, that was in the last century. I've been using English for all these years. I've had so much discussion. Sometime in my spare time, I talk to myself. I ask myself questions. There's so much thinking that's going on, so much discussion, so much reading, why? Not because I like it or I'm mad or something, because these are the questions that we want to answer.

刘欣：我大学时的专业是英语，那是上个世纪的事了。这些年来我一直在使用英语工作，我参与过无数的讨论，甚至闲暇时，我有时会自言自语 ，问自己问题。我不停地思考这个世界，还有讨论和阅读，为什么呢？不是因为我喜欢或者我疯了，而是我们需要回答怎样与世界沟通这个问题。

Liu Xin: How can we talk to people in other parts of the world who don't speak Chinese? I have to reach out to them, and I cannot wait for everybody to be able to speak Chinese because then we will never understand each other. So, I want to reach out, I want to go over. But it's very very difficult.

刘欣：我们怎样与世界其他地方的不会说中文的人交流？我得积极主动！我不能等每个人都学会中文再说，那样我们永远无法理解对方，所以我采取主动，去跨越障碍，但这非常难。

Liu Xin: 25 years I've been working in this profession. I love it. I'm enjoying it and I'm ever more energized and empowered, but it's not been an easy path. That's why I'm angry. I'm angry when people say, oh, you come from the state media, you're doing propaganda. 

刘欣：过去25年里我一直从事国际传播，我热爱并享受这个行业，比以前更有干劲了。不过这条路真不好走，这也是为什么我愤怒。一听到有人说：“哦，你来自国家媒体，所以你做的就是政治宣传”，我就冒火。

Liu Xin: I say, excuse me, there are thousands of people, more than thousands, tens of thousands of people who are working extremely hard to bring information from one language, from our native language, which is Chinese, to you. And you say in one word 'propaganda', you discredit everything. That's why I'm extremely angry. Don't mess with me. That's what I say, because I won't take it.

刘欣：我要说：“劳驾，有几千人甚至几万人在奋力地跨越语言障碍，把我们的母语中文里的信息传递给你，而你轻飘飘的一个‘政治宣传’就抹杀了一切？”所以这令我很生气。我的意思是：不要惹我，我不吃这一套！

Oksana Boyko: I remember that back in 2019, you had a bit of an argument with the Fox News host. You described her as being all emotion and little substance. And I think that was, frankly, a fair criticism. But I want to ask you, why do you think emotionality, rather than critical thinking, has become such a dominant feature of Western broadcasting? Because arguably it's easy for them not only to talk but think in English. But for some reason, there is a very, very determined push and pull towards emotionality.

奥克萨纳·博伊科：在2019年你与福克斯（商业频道）的主持人进行了一次辩论，你形容她只会煽情 没有实质内容。坦率地说，我认为这个批评是合理的。我想问你，为什么现在的西方广播电视上充斥着情绪而非批判思考？因为对母语是英语的人来说，用英语交谈和思考很容易吧。但由于某些原因，西方媒体中愈发倾向于用情感来叙事。

Liu Xin: First, I have to say, with all due respect to Trish Reagan, my counterpart in that debate. When I wrote that opinion piece which triggered the debate, I didn't mean to say that she was all emotions and no substance.

刘欣：首先我必须说明，恕我直言，关于我在那场辩论中的对手翠西·黎根，当我写下那篇引发辩论的评论时，我并不是想说她只会煽情没有实质内容。

Liu Xin: But you see, that's the problem. because I was thinking in Chinese and I wrote the piece. I was actually saying her research was not well done. But I really didn't accuse her of being all emotions and no brains, but I guess that made her feel offended.

刘欣：但你看，这正是问题所在，因为我是用中文思考然后写了那篇文章，我其实想说她的调研做得不扎实，而不是指责她只会煽情没有头脑，但我猜这句话冒犯了她。

Oksana Boyko: It's not about her, you know, her personality or even her style. My question is more about the general approach to work.

奥克萨纳·博伊科：但其实不是针对她本人、个性或风格，我的问题是她们的工作方法。

Liu Xin: Of course. When talking about emotionality, we mentioned it just now. I said, we are all emotional animals. That's why life is so beautiful. That's why life is so easily manipulated. That's why we're so credulous as well. That's why we as journalists who are people who can shape people's minds, have such a huge responsibility that we do not use emotion in an excessive, in a manipulative way.

刘欣：我明白。谈到情感，我们刚刚也提到了，我说人类都是情感动物，生命因此而美好，但人们也因此很容易被操纵，而且特别容易轻信。这就是为什么作为记者、作为能够塑造人们思想的人，我们肩负着巨大的责任，我们不要过度渲染情绪或者滥用情绪。

Liu Xin: Sometimes there are true emotions which have to come out. It can be extremely powerful. I'm not shunning away from emotion, but when you are making emotion to push your political agenda, I think that is a very dangerous thing.

刘欣：有时候一些真实的情感需要得到表达，这种情感极其有力度，因此我们不应刻意回避。但当你利用情感来设置政治议程时，我觉得这就很危险了。

Liu Xin: So, both as a reader, both as a consumer of information and as a producer of information, I'm extremely aware when it comes to emotion. I'd rather keep my tears in my eyes when I see something because I don't want myself to be manipulated by my emotions.

刘欣：因此无论作为信息的消费者还是生产者，我非常清楚一旦涉及情感，我宁愿让眼泪在眼眶里打转转，因为我不希望自己被自己的情绪所左右。

Liu Xin: And according to Western philosophy, actually, what is freedom? Freedom is when you are able to restrain your animal instinct and make the right choices despite your emotions. That is when you achieve true freedom and I want to have that kind of freedom and I want to give my audience the choice to have that freedom as well.

刘欣：西方哲学对自由的定义是什么呢？自由是指你能够抑制自己的动物本能，不受情感的影响做出正确的选择。这时你能获得真正的自由，我希望拥有这样的自由，我也希望给予我的观众拥有这种自由的选项。

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